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 Post subject: Re: I don't believe
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:55 am 
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I know these are very old dates but I was just reading through and figured I'd throw my two cents in. I do think one can have a lack of belief without running into a belief of nothing. That thinking comes from my idea that opinions and beliefs are separate. When people say they believe in God, I think they are really saying they believe to have some sort of inside knowledge that no amount of reason or logic will change. An opinion, I think, falls more into the category of something that can be changed with logic. Such as it's ok to drive and text. Therefore I can have an opinion that it's likely there is no God without having a belief that there can NEVER be a God (in my opinion.)

Perhaps this wasn't my best of explanations. It's like 7 am and I should have gone to bed a while ago but hopefully I defended my point intelligently.

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 Post subject: Re: I don't believe
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:31 pm 
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So after a full days sleep I think I can better articulate my point. I think when you believe in something there is also a secondary belief that you can't be wrong. You don't hear people say I believe in God but maybe he isn't real.
I think a person can admit an opinion could be wrong. If you had to give an exact percentage to the likelihood of God being real and said 49%, you wouldn't really say you have a belief in atheism. But you could freely give the opinion that God isn't real.

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 Post subject: Re: I don't believe
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:26 pm 
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ceytin wrote:
But what if you don't have an opinion on the matter - is that still a belief? Belief that the matter is not worthy of an opinion.


Certainly. However, one might also simply be in the position of no opinion because of the belief that one does not have enough information to form what one would later believe to be a valid sound opinion once enough information has been gathered. It can not be assumed that because an opinion has not been formed that a decision of some finality to not form an opinion has been made.

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 Post subject: Re: I don't believe
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:32 am 
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RevDamion wrote:
However, one might also simply be in the position of no opinion because of the belief that one does not have enough information to form what one would later believe to be a valid sound opinion once enough information has been gathered.


I've emboldened certain words in your quote - the initial question of this topic was: can there be an absence of belief. In your answer there is still belief. belief for or against or that you don't have enough information to have an opinion. in each case there is belief.

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"Learn to accept, even welcome pain - for if you do not fear pain... if the thought of physical, emotional or spiritual anguish cannot dissuade you from the true path - then no enemy, however strong, can defeat you...no struggle, however long, can deter you...nor circumstance, however wrong, can keep you from your destiny."


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 Post subject: Re: I don't believe
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:34 am 
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RevDamion wrote:
However, one might also simply be in the position of no opinion because of the belief that one does not have enough information to form what one would later believe to be a valid sound opinion once enough information has been gathered.


I've emboldened certain words in your quote - the initial question of this topic was: can there be an absence of belief? In your answer there is still belief. belief for or against or that you don't have enough information to have an opinion. in each case there is belief.

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ceytin
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"Learn to accept, even welcome pain - for if you do not fear pain... if the thought of physical, emotional or spiritual anguish cannot dissuade you from the true path - then no enemy, however strong, can defeat you...no struggle, however long, can deter you...nor circumstance, however wrong, can keep you from your destiny."


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 Post subject: Re: I don't believe
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:26 am 
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ceytin wrote:
RevDamion wrote:
However, one might also simply be in the position of no opinion because of the belief that one does not have enough information to form what one would later believe to be a valid sound opinion once enough information has been gathered.


I've emboldened certain words in your quote - the initial question of this topic was: can there be an absence of belief. In your answer there is still belief. belief for or against or that you don't have enough information to have an opinion. in each case there is belief.


Pardon. That is my humor. I like to play on words and I was responding to the other part of your question (the part I quoted). I will rephrase.

However, one might also be in the position of no opinion because of the opinion that one does not have enough information to form what one would later come to the conclusion that it is a valid sound opinion once enough information has been gathered.

As to whether there can be an abscence of belief, no. It becomes useless once knowledge is gained but knowledge is sought with belief first. Also, belief in nothing is belief in something because nothing has the state of being nothing and is therefore something.

The closest to being void is zero which is "between" and therefore exists. The only way to surpass zero- or going from point A (1) to point C (-1) while avoiding B (0) is a wormhole or triumphing over Space and the wormhole is something. You then have to move fast enough to make Time slow down. (When Time slows down your perception of events is rather like in the show The Six Million Dollar Man. It feels fast and slow simultaneously.) You still have to believe you will get to point C and bypass B the first go unless it happens unexpectedly.

ie I found myself to be in a totally diffetent part of a library than I had been in and my head was gently turned and my eyes focused on the spine of a book that turned out to be important and I was not looking for it either. I simply suddenly was seemingly transported. I did not expect that to happen let alone have time to believe it would. It is only human to believe first even if your theory seems sound. Once you prove a theory via experience, belief can be tossed.

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