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Ophvedius
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Post subject: Study hard? Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:34 am |
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| Libertine VII |
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:11 am Posts: 481 Location: The Woods
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It has been said the Satanism demands study, not worship. While I agree with this statement, the first question is, what needs to be studied?
One would think that the obvious choice would be the select one of current mainstream Satanic texts to study. The first problem is that vast majority of these texts contain undeveloped ideas.
One example of this is the following quote: The Devil is not an anthropomorphic deity, but rather a dark, hidden force in nature responsible for the workings of earthly affairs, a force for which neither science nor religion had any explanation. An interesting concept indeed, yet it is undeveloped. No further information to support this theory is presented nor is the reader provided additional sources for such information.
The next issue is that these texts contain little or no information about the origins of Satan, his actions, and the role he has played in the affairs of mankind. To make matters worse, what little they do have to say on the matter is quite imbalanced in that they tend to focus on pride and individualism, and completely disregard the more pertinent attributes of the Lord of the Earth.
To illustrate, here are 2 quotes I really enjoy from a Satanic text that go hand in hand:
Satan represents the spirit of progress, the inspirer of all great movements that contribute to the development of civilization and the advancement of mankind. He is the spirit of revolt that leads to freedom, the embodiment of all heresies that liberate. Satan represents opposition to all religions which serve to frustrate and condemn man for his natural instincts. In the first quote a reference is made to the Promethean aspect of Satan, yet nowhere else in any of the so-called bedrock texts of Satanism is any mention made as to how Satanism as a religion or movement can contribute to the development of civilization and the advancement of mankind. Its not that the anti-hero/liberator aspects of Satan arent mentioned, its that all of the details are left out. And again the reader is not provided any material for further study.
The texts do go into great detail on the virtues of indulgence, misanthropy and extreme selfishness. I challenge you to explain how these types of behavior can contribute to the development of civilization and the advancement of mankind.
In regards to the second quote, where is this opposition to the oppressive, life-hating religions? If you think that by ignoring something or by being indifferent to something you are actually opposing it, you are sadly mistaken. Opposition requires effort, not inaction.
As it stands, Satanism exists as an individualistic, hedonist, prideful philosophy that uses selfishness as an excuse for inaction. It is an imbalanced viewpoint that typically disregards anything that exists outside of the self. Satanists must come to realize that Satanism should be based upon the actual attributes of Satan, not just the ones that are convenient, but all of the attributes. And what is the one attribute that was the embodiment of every past incarnation of Satan? It was his willingness to act! It was his attempt to free mankind from spiritual, mental and physical bondage, to elevate man to the status of an immortal god.
Sadly, the current texts leave that part out. Bedrock? No. Perhaps sand is a more accurate term?
While it is true that extensive and continual study is essential to Satanism, I refuse to accept the statement that Satanism demands study, not worship as an acceptable excuse for the degree of obvious laziness on the part of the previous authors.
So, what should a Satanist study? Satan - as he has existed in different cultures throughout time. Pay close attention to his deeds and ponder the motivation such a being would have for performing such deeds. If you would like to know specific texts and other sources, I would be more that happy to provide them to you. You need only ask.
_________________ I am just a monkey on a davenport in his living room. You can make me anything else you want.
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GrymLord
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Post subject: Re: Study hard? Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:41 am |
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| Exemplar |
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Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:51 pm Posts: 1552 Location: Sydney, Australia
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I'm not quite sure what the purpose of this post is... I don't mean to be rude, but if it is a submission or musings on the Libertine level than I won't comment. If, however, you are asking a serious question on what to study.... my answer is below.
Everything.
_________________ Determination. Perseverance. Resolution.
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AnkouDroug
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Post subject: Re: Study hard? Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:32 pm |
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| Exemplar |
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:30 am Posts: 1951 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Indeed, Grymlord; and man, in striving and working to know himself, the world, and act on it in response to his own desires and will, to create and become himself, only better, is Satan, not bowing to the arbitrary imposition of an external, unquestioned, unchallenged authority. In knowing human nature we come to know human social nature, of course, and our constitution as individuals. In focussing on the self as the centre we are only acknowledging that each person is the mediator and vehicle of their own life; by analogy, I might be driving my car, listening to my music, but I am very much aware of the traffic around and work with it, because I ignore its complexities and varied individual elements at my peril, and at the peril of those others. Satan will still manoeuver to get where he wants to go in better time, or to have a more enjoyable ride, of course.
_________________ Ebet labour ne zizoner un den.
For once we were gods, so shall we be again!
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HALL-oween
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Post subject: Re: Study hard? Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:11 am |
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| Libertine II |
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:28 am Posts: 119 Location: Upstate New York
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I think it is pertinent to study- everything such as Grymlord pointed out. Basically operant learning should be implemented. This means that we should strive for a higher degree of awareness as Dr. LaVey pointed out. That you should consistently strive to learn more than the people around you. Too many people just float through life and don't ask why?, they just take things at face value which is very dangerous. Even if you study and learn some things change.
For instance, there are many people I know that believe just about everything on TV or the internet they see. While it is easier to accept things at face value it doesn't take much more work (and is often more rewarding!) to ask why? To dig a little deeper.
When the Satanic panic was in full swing and Geraldo stoked the fire with his special, I knew something wasn't quite right- I didn't have the other side of the story. So I searched for the the other side of the story. You are probably aware of the impact that had on society and how people accepted what Geraldo was saying and how dangerous it was.
We should study the whole subject, item, story, not just read the cliff notes, or glance at the cover, make up our minds and think we have all the answers as many others do.
I studied this in college- critical thinking- a good book on the subject is this- Mistakes were made but not by me.
_________________ You must stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.
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GrymLord
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Post subject: Re: Study hard? Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:00 pm |
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| Exemplar |
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Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:51 pm Posts: 1552 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Can I also recommend that instead of PRETENDING that you know about something, admit your ignorance. That way, you will find people who have studied a particular area and may be able to recommend a good path to find out.
For example, if you're at a party and someone talks about a new application for the Theory of Relativity, instead of saying "E=MC^2, yeah I know that shit, how boring" why not ask what book or article the person was reading to find out about that. If you don't care either way then ignore them and stop talking to the nerds - go find a drink or a chick or a chick with a drink. If it brings up some glimmer of interest ask how you can find out more.
_________________ Determination. Perseverance. Resolution.
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Lyria
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Post subject: Re: Study hard? Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:31 pm |
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| Libertine VI |
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:24 pm Posts: 1539 Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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GrymLord wrote: Can I also recommend that instead of PRETENDING that you know about something, admit your ignorance. That way, you will find people who have studied a particular area and may be able to recommend a good path to find out.
....If it brings up some glimmer of interest ask how you can find out more. Very good point Grym, and usually if you pretend with a knowledgeable person, you can very easily be made out to look like a fool. There is no shame in not knowing about something as long as you then try to find out by taking an interest and asking questions (and people love to talk about the things they know, so it shouldn't be too difficult to continue the conversation and get some answers). People that willingly remain ignorant are the ones who get on my nerves, and then I don't see much point in continuing a discussion once I discover this lack of curiosity in people. This reminds me of my brother's favourite saying,.... "I can't know."
_________________ "Adapt and Overcome" MistressLyria@gmail.comwww.myspace.com/lyriasdungeon
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HALL-oween
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Post subject: Re: Study hard? Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:39 pm |
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| Libertine II |
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:28 am Posts: 119 Location: Upstate New York
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GrymLord wrote: Can I also recommend that instead of PRETENDING that you know about something, admit your ignorance. That way, you will find people who have studied a particular area and may be able to recommend a good path to find out. Agreed, I am a fiend for knowledge, my famous line is-"Let's look that up!" I ALWAYS ask questions- sometimes to the point where someone will look at me with a "why would that matter?" look. It has become a habit for me, and it can be fun- I become educated and occasionally get to tell people that they are wrong!
_________________ You must stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.
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PsychoTherapy
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Post subject: Re: Study hard? Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:49 am |
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:15 am Posts: 48 Location: Pretoria, South Africa
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Totally agreed with most opinions.
This thread makes me think about the winner-loser scenario where one would rather lose with dignity than win with dishonesty.
Rather appear intelligently uninformed than prententiously educated.
No one knows too much. (I sometimes think I do and thats a seriously shit attitude).
_________________ I told the new me: "Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads 'today is the first day for the rest of your life' ..." But the old me met me with a sign that read "welcome back".
...WHO you are is not a function of WHERE you are...
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PsychoTherapy
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Post subject: Re: Study hard? Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:52 am |
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:15 am Posts: 48 Location: Pretoria, South Africa
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PsychoTherapy wrote: This thread makes me think about the winner-loser scenario where one would rather lose with dignity than win with dishonesty.
Then again...
Losing SUCKS!
_________________ I told the new me: "Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads 'today is the first day for the rest of your life' ..." But the old me met me with a sign that read "welcome back".
...WHO you are is not a function of WHERE you are...
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AnkouDroug
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Post subject: Re: Study hard? Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:56 pm |
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| Exemplar |
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:30 am Posts: 1951 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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PsychoTherapy wrote: PsychoTherapy wrote: This thread makes me think about the winner-loser scenario where one would rather lose with dignity than win with dishonesty.
Then again...
Losing SUCKS!Of course it does, but would one rather lose a minor skirmish or probing-action, or win a war? What one putatively loses in terms of the momentary esteem of others or status can be untilized to one's ends (such as falling off their radar-screens), just as the knowledge acquired by admitting ignorance and eliciting answers to questions is all gain. The real issue is the correct investment of effort in proportion to the importance of the contentious matter at hand.
_________________ Ebet labour ne zizoner un den.
For once we were gods, so shall we be again!
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GrymLord
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Post subject: Re: Study hard? Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:16 pm |
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| Exemplar |
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Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:51 pm Posts: 1552 Location: Sydney, Australia
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AnkouDroug wrote: Of course it does, but would one rather lose a minor skirmish or probing-action, or win a war? Oh, this is my most favourite tactic. I think that patience and strategy are the satanists best weapons. There is nothing more satisfying than finding that a person who has gloated over a minor win is now grovelling at your feet at the end of the battle. In a short one of arguement where it becomes a competition, no one wins. The person who you "beat" comes out a loser and you look like a loser for trying to win one over on a loser.... However, a nicely placed "I told you so" veiled with a "Oh really?" or a "Is that so?" is much more reward in itself. Remember, if you are a God, the only person who can give you points is yourself.
_________________ Determination. Perseverance. Resolution.
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OrgasmicKarmatic
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Post subject: Re: Study hard? Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:54 am |
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| Libertine II |
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:34 am Posts: 446 Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Because of the way that I happened upon this forum, I was doing a lot of studying before I even realized it. When my fiance pointed out several things that he believed that made me NOT Wiccan, it made me seek out more and more.
Now, since joining the forum here I have done more research and taken from it what I will. I apply it to my life as I see need be. I have followed through the LaVeyan texts much as I have skipped along the Deistic, Theistic, Modern, Traditional forms of Satanism. I have studied the Dark Doctrines and I have written down my notes.
I firmly believe that any type of studying is beneficial even if some of the parts are things that you have to find out from other people.. WHEN YOU ARE READY TO. When you get past the texts, reading and research.. you must forge your OWN way through these things, choose your understandings of them and, if need be, ask for a little help later on. However sporadic these texts may be, you have to know the question before you can ask it; before you can have the answer to it.
xD
_________________ Nothing is true; Everything is permitted.Hold no rules, no boundaries, except for those you choose to live and abide by.http://www.satanicinternationalnetwork.com
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