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Or do you find the SB could be edited down to 1/4th it's current length?

-- hartnell

what do you mean??
which parts would you edit?

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"Wise men don't need to prove their point.. men who need to prove their point aren't wise.
- Lao Tzu

Damn good questions, Draco! (Thank you for raising the bar.)

Essentially, I think it can be edited down to reduce bombast and increase useful info. The signal-to-noise ratio is too high.

1. The introduction by Burton H. Wolfe. This can be skipped entirely and offers no useful info for the time you spend reading it.

2. The Preface by LaVey. Yes, yes, another author claiming to present something new -- as all books do, from Cortina's Spanish Method written in the 1800's to CSS books of today. This can be skipped entirely, just insert this common format: They've all done it wrong. Here I do it right for the first time! (Bwa ha ha.)

3. Prologue. Blech. True, but sans bombast this can be expressed in a few sentences.

4. Book of Satan. Quite a bit of this comes from Might is Right, which I highly recommend in of itself but also think it could be edited down to a more useful text. I think that this was possibly LaVey's intent, as most of the good nuggets from MIR are present in the SB.

5. The Essays. LaVey was a great essay writer and I highly recommend his collections (Satan Speaks!, Devil's Notebooks) but I have to wonder, do most of these essays belong in a book we refer to as a 'bible'.

6. Sections on Magic. I'm going to have to re-read this to say specifically where and about what, but I remember it being a bit too hefty in bombast.

-- hartnell

as I see it you are reducing the SB from 100 to 80 pages.... for what purpose?

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"Wise men don't need to prove their point.. men who need to prove their point aren't wise.
- Lao Tzu

Hmm.. I don't think it would be as prolific as it is if it were not for its substance. As with everything there are of course things that could be left out, but he didn't, he won't remove them, and I don't really see it as anyones right to edit his work. But since you seem to have already postulated over some changes, I offer you this challenge:
Write your own bible.

As for using the SB as a "bible":
I carry it around not as a guide to live my life, but as an inspiration that there is a life to live. LaVey named it The Satanic Bible more than likely for the same reason he named his paradigm Satanism; as a shock to the populous.
Btw, the part I find myself reading most is the book of satan.
As for the might is right, I'm sure there was another post that brought this up, something about accusing LaVey of being a plagiarizer. Since this is the second time this has book has been mentioned here, 'll go take a look at it when I'm done with the fountainhead.

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Ich bin Gott(los)

@Draco: To reduce the signal-to-noise ratio.

-- hartnell

I have to say that I really like how you used signal-to-noise ratio to express that opinion, but with that said. I would lie to see it actually expanded in some ways. I would like to see every essay rewritten with more information crammed in to elaborate on ideas with added footnotes, examples, glossary, index, appendix, flow charts, and while we are at it why not a few diagrams of social conscience so that i could better understand the hierarchy of "sheeple" I wish to lead to the slaughter (metaphorically speaking). Hey, is there a Satanic Tech Manual?

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A little happiness never killed anyone, except those that do not have it and kill themselves because others do.

I think I'm starting to understand your sense of humor.

-- hartnell

See, I'm not such a bad guy. Quirky and often Cliche' maybe, but there is always a reason for my madness. At least I think so.

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A little happiness never killed anyone, except those that do not have it and kill themselves because others do.

And I've already learned something from ya.

-- hartnell

I must say, I am so unbelievably happy with everything I've seen you post. Your humor and wit have been everything I've been looking for in the people immediately around me. In that thought, I hope I've taken everything you've said as you've meant it. The only thing I can show for it is my admiration for your posts. I look forward to corresponding with you. Now with that out of the way....

As with everything, noise is there to discern the serious from the simple onlooker.(if you have the knowledge of the concept of noise to signal ratio, you must realize the ability needed to weed out the true signal from the noise) If it wasn't, there would be no purpose, and I find it truly hard to believe that everything in it isn't there for a reason. I'm not LaVeyian, but I recognize true cognitive intelligence when I see it. Even the biographies of LaVey show that he didn't do things without a purpose. Whether it be manipulative or to hide the true nature of his beliefs and what he wanted to achieve or others to understand, everything is there for its own specific purpose. If you disagree with it thats fine. It's no hair off my back.

I just finished an incredibly huge discussion about the rituals in the SB with my wiccan fiance, and I believe she understands far more than shes willing to admit at the moment. She controls her surroundings with the efficiency of a true satanist, but does it on such a level that she doesn't recognize it as I do. I'm objective, shes not. Semantics, mysticism, etc. are there to weed out true believers in themselves from those that are aiming for something outside themselves to believe in. Which seems to be the aim of satanism. To weed out those that are useless and undetermined to achieve anything from those who have the potential of greatness in them. it is objectivism with the emotional and spiritual needs to handle the world we have to deal with. If Anton was half the man any of us are expected to think he is, he wouldn't dare put his thoughts in such an outright performance. (purely conjecture, but prove me wrong if you feel the need to) He commanded absolute values and explored those values in the Satanic Bible. And we are the descendants who already were aware of our own absolute values. (once again, if anyone feels the need to interject, please do, I'm not here to argue, merely discuss)

What I've found in the SB is not the truths I was looking for, but a symbol I can identify with and have suit my needs and wants. To argue the SB is not blasphemy in any form. I fully recognize the right of anyone to criticize Mr. LaVey. What I find contention with is someones urge to change what he has said, to change ones objective values to suit their own, to re-write a truly definitive piece of work, when every person has their own power to create their own piece of work and definitive values. That is what satanism means to me. Not that he was wrong, but that he was right on more parts than many are ready to admit. Whether there be an obstruct of signal to noise level to one person does not mean the book needs to be changed.(if one node is gathering more noise than an other, do you shutdown the entire network or try to figure out what is wrong with that nodes connection?)

It was his work. To change it now would be to have no respect for anything he stood for.
It just means you need to create your own to suit your needs. No ones word should be taken as definitive truth unless you allow it to be definitive truth. Your word should be your definitive truth. That, as far as I'm concerned, is the great truth of satanism.

I feel at this point some apology is warranted, but you will receive none. Something has been written that you hold as value. But not enough as value that you are willing to accept it and elaborate on your own, that you wish to diminish that which it is. To change the Satanic Bible is NOT blasphemy, but a total disregard to his right to have his name on that book, and a total disregard of recognition for what he has started.

The idea of an anti-culture, anti-christian ideal did not start with Anton LaVey, but he coined the idea that has become the backbone of everything that has since developed. I AM a Satanist. Not by his words, but by my own. I AM my own god and will have my own values written down for me to observe. I have nothing but respect for Anton whether I believe every word is necessary or not. He apparently did. Why change it?

If I come off as defensive, I am not sorry. Out of all the self-help books my family has bought for me, nothing has compared to the assurance I've found in the Satanic Bible which I bought myself. Of no volition other than my own.

I will defend his work as I would the Korn guitarist which my christian friends prayed for when he "found god". My life is better for everything they have done, as is it better for everything Anton has done.

I DO NOT assert that Anton LaVey was/is infallible. But to suggest that anyone change what he has done in writing, in his life, etc., is an act which I will fight to the end.

If you truly believe that things need to change, then be the source of that change. Live on your convictions and create your own dogma, which is the true foundry of the "Modern Satanist".

I WILL NOT apologize for anything said in this post.

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Ich bin Gott(los)

I have gone through my copies (I have one for lending out) and highlighted the key information. This also helps for the copy that I lend out, as those who are getting an introductory glimpse at Satanism through that book can read only the important parts, which are the key ideas that tend to identify a personality as Satanic. And let's face it- many people who could do with education on the topic but are not Satanically inclined themselves tend not be so great in the literacy department.

It's true though, if I were to compile only my highlighted sections, I would have little more than a chapter. In order to make it into a whole book, there was quite a bit of filler added, but it was complimentary to the important stuff.

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"Adapt and Overcome"

MistressLyria@gmail.com
www.myspace.com/lyriasdungeon

I think as a book to jump off ideas from..it's not bad. It's a relatively short read. Though reading a few times seems to help things sink in better. But to be honest? It's not the Alpha and Omega of my religion. It's just a book with some very good ideas. After that comes the harder part..putting what you take from it into practice and making it your own. Weather it's a thousand pages or 4...I am most likely gonna skim through and take what is relevant and beneficial to me.

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She has the blood of reptile just underneath her skin