Login    Forum    Register    Search    FAQ

Live Chat

Board index » Education and Development » Philosophy




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Ricky Gervais ~ Why I don't believe in god
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:21 pm 
Offline
Libertine III
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:58 am
Posts: 471
Location: GR , MI
Most people recognize Ricky Gervais from his tv shows and movies. But the bastard has a degree in philosophy. Heres a recent article he had written on being an atheist.

Why don’t you believe in God? I get that question all the time. I always try to give a sensitive, reasoned answer. This is usually awkward, time consuming and pointless. People who believe in God don’t need proof of his existence, and they certainly don’t want evidence to the contrary. They are happy with their belief. They even say things like “it’s true to me” and “it’s faith.” I still give my logical answer because I feel that not being honest would be patronizing and impolite. It is ironic therefore that “I don’t believe in God because there is absolutely no scientific evidence for his existence and from what I’ve heard the very definition is a logical impossibility in this known universe,” comes across as both patronizing and impolite.

Arrogance is another accusation. Which seems particularly unfair. Science seeks the truth. And it does not discriminate. For better or worse it finds things out. Science is humble. It knows what it knows and it knows what it doesn’t know. It bases its conclusions and beliefs on hard evidence -­- evidence that is constantly updated and upgraded. It doesn’t get offended when new facts come along. It embraces the body of knowledge. It doesn’t hold on to medieval practices because they are tradition. If it did, you wouldn’t get a shot of penicillin, you’d pop a leach down your trousers and pray. Whatever you “believe,” this is not as effective as medicine. Again you can say, “It works for me,” but so do placebos. My point being, I’m saying God doesn’t exist. I’m not saying faith doesn’t exist. I know faith exists. I see it all the time. But believing in something doesn’t make it true. Hoping that something is true doesn’t make it true. The existence of God is not subjective. He either exists or he doesn’t. It’s not a matter of opinion. You can have your own opinions. But you can’t have your own facts.

Why don’t I believe in God? No, no no, why do YOU believe in God? Surely the burden of proof is on the believer. You started all this. If I came up to you and said, “Why don’t you believe I can fly?” You’d say, “Why would I?” I’d reply, “Because it’s a matter of faith.” If I then said, “Prove I can’t fly. Prove I can’t fly see, see, you can’t prove it can you?” You’d probably either walk away, call security or throw me out of the window and shout, ‘’F—ing fly then you lunatic.”

This, is of course a spirituality issue, religion is a different matter. As an atheist, I see nothing “wrong” in believing in a god. I don’t think there is a god, but belief in him does no harm. If it helps you in any way, then that’s fine with me. It’s when belief starts infringing on other people’s rights when it worries me. I would never deny your right to believe in a god. I would just rather you didn’t kill people who believe in a different god, say. Or stone someone to death because your rulebook says their sexuality is immoral. It’s strange that anyone who believes that an all-powerful all-knowing, omniscient power responsible for everything that happens, would also want to judge and punish people for what they are. From what I can gather, pretty much the worst type of person you can be is an atheist. The first four commandments hammer this point home. There is a god, I’m him, no one else is, you’re not as good and don’t forget it. (Don’t murder anyone, doesn’t get a mention till number 6.)

When confronted with anyone who holds my lack of religious faith in such contempt, I say, “It’s the way God made me.”

But what are atheists really being accused of?

The dictionary definition of God is “a supernatural creator and overseer of the universe.” Included in this definition are all deities, goddesses and supernatural beings. Since the beginning of recorded history, which is defined by the invention of writing by the Sumerians around 6,000 years ago, historians have cataloged over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be considered deities.

So next time someone tells me they believe in God, I’ll say “Oh which one? Zeus? Hades? Jupiter? Mars? Odin? Thor? Krishna? Vishnu? Ra?…” If they say “Just God. I only believe in the one God,” I’ll point out that they are nearly as atheistic as me. I don’t believe in 2,870 gods, and they don’t believe in 2,869.

I used to believe in God. The Christian one that is.

I loved Jesus. He was my hero. More than pop stars. More than footballers. More than God. God was by definition omnipotent and perfect. Jesus was a man. He had to work at it. He had temptation but defeated sin. He had integrity and courage. But He was my hero because He was kind. And He was kind to everyone. He didn’t bow to peer pressure or tyranny or cruelty. He didn’t care who you were. He loved you. What a guy. I wanted to be just like Him.

One day when I was about 8 years old, I was drawing the crucifixion as part of my Bible studies homework. I loved art too. And nature. I loved how God made all the animals. They were also perfect. Unconditionally beautiful. It was an amazing world.

I lived in a very poor, working-class estate in an urban sprawl called Reading, about 40 miles west of London. My father was a laborer and my mother was a housewife. I was never ashamed of poverty. It was almost noble. Also, everyone I knew was in the same situation, and I had everything I needed. School was free. My clothes were cheap and always clean and ironed. And mum was always cooking. She was cooking the day I was drawing on the cross.

I was sitting at the kitchen table when my brother came home. He was 11 years older than me, so he would have been 19. He was as smart as anyone I knew, but he was too cheeky. He would answer back and get into trouble. I was a good boy. I went to church and believed in God -– what a relief for a working-class mother. You see, growing up where I did, mums didn’t hope as high as their kids growing up to be doctors; they just hoped their kids didn’t go to jail. So bring them up believing in God and they’ll be good and law abiding. It’s a perfect system. Well, nearly. 75 percent of Americans are God-­‐fearing Christians; 75 percent of prisoners are God-­‐fearing Christians. 10 percent of Americans are atheists; 0.2 percent of prisoners are atheists.

But anyway, there I was happily drawing my hero when my big brother Bob asked, “Why do you believe in God?” Just a simple question. But my mum panicked. “Bob,” she said in a tone that I knew meant, “Shut up.” Why was that a bad thing to ask? If there was a God and my faith was strong it didn’t matter what people said.

Oh…hang on. There is no God. He knows it, and she knows it deep down. It was as simple as that. I started thinking about it and asking more questions, and within an hour, I was an atheist.

Wow. No God. If mum had lied to me about God, had she also lied to me about Santa? Yes, of course, but who cares? The gifts kept coming. And so did the gifts of my new found atheism. The gifts of truth, science, nature. The real beauty of this world. I learned of evolution -– a theory so simple that only England’s greatest genius could have come up with it. Evolution of plants, animals and us –- with imagination, free will, love, humor. I no longer needed a reason for my existence, just a reason to live. And imagination, free will, love, humor, fun, music, sports, beer and pizza are all good enough reasons for living.

But living an honest life -– for that you need the truth. That’s the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, in the end leads to liberation and dignity.

So what does the question “Why don’t you believe in God?” really mean. I think when someone asks that they are really questioning their own belief. In a way they are asking “what makes you so special? “How come you weren’t brainwashed with the rest of us?” “How dare you say I’m a fool and I’m not going to heaven, f— you!” Let’s be honest, if one person believed in God he would be considered pretty strange. But because it’s a very popular view it’s accepted. And why is it such a popular view? That’s obvious. It’s an attractive proposition. Believe in me and live forever. Again if it was just a case of spirituality this would be fine.

“Do unto others…” is a good rule of thumb. I live by that. Forgiveness is probably the greatest virtue there is. But that’s exactly what it is -­‐ a virtue. Not just a Christian virtue. No one owns being good. I’m good. I just don’t believe I’ll be rewarded for it in heaven. My reward is here and now. It’s knowing that I try to do the right thing. That I lived a good life. And that’s where spirituality really lost its way. When it became a stick to beat people with. “Do this or you’ll burn in hell.”

You won’t burn in hell. But be nice anyway.

_________________
Ich bin Gott(los)
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ricky Gervais ~ Why I don't believe in god
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:26 pm 
Offline
Libertine IV
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:42 pm
Posts: 315
Location: Chicago IL
I love it. I was thinking about this the other day after a very annoying conversation with a christian. He kept telling me no matter what when I die I will be judged, and how there is only 1 god and all other religions are wrong because there is only 1 god, the christian god. At first I started to have a friendly debate but I then realized that he was so closed minded and full of stupidity that I said "Good Luck" and just walked away. It was as if he was trying to prove to himself that god existed.

_________________
"The act of slow piercing is a transcendent spiritual event. There is no pain just sensation. You observe the body, experiencing the sensation, surrender to the experience feel the endorphin rush as the surgical steel slices through." -Captain Howdy

http://www.facebook.com/PhotoAMH13
http://www.amh13.com/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ricky Gervais ~ Why I don't believe in god
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:52 am
Posts: 12
I am now God..................any question or to prove me wrong please write.............am here............any were am God am not a man........... 8)

_________________
We Must Rise Up OurSelves.Wait No More For Recognition Of A Greater Being.......Beee The Greater Being.........!!!!!!!!!!!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ricky Gervais ~ Why I don't believe in god
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:23 pm
Posts: 4
I am a Satanist, I am not an atheist. As my own god it would seem not only idiotic but ironic and hypocritical to consider myself my own god while trying to disprove the concept of "god." It would seem pointless to go to all the trouble in an atheistic debate to disprove god and then mess it all up by declaring that you were your own god.

IMHO, these popular atheists can have all the proof they want of their reliance on materialism, and I am not the person to tell them they are wrong. However, if I am apathetic to them or their message the the effect of their message loses all it's power. I don't care what Dawkins, Hitchens, Denette, or Sam Harris have to say. I see the type of influence that these popular atheists have over the minority as nothing less than Lesser Magick. The only way a Satanist can break a curse that is placed on him/her is to simply not give it power, be apathetic to the concept of said curse. I believe the same is true here. If I get all my atheistic ideas from these guys, how exactly am being a true freethinker?

I am not a fan of Ricky Gervais reason's why he doesn't believe in god, because I don't care. He is a great comedian and his movie "The Invention of Lying" was great. But I don't have to care about why he isn't religious, that his reasons.

Maybe your asking why I even bothered to write this, if I don't care. Well I would [selectively] care more about what my fellow Satanists has to say, that what an Actor has to say.

_________________
There is something ticklish in "the truth" and in the search for the truth; and if a man goes about it too humanely, I wager he find nothing!
Nietzsche, from Beyond Good and Evil


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ricky Gervais ~ Why I don't believe in god
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:51 pm 
Offline
Exemplar
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:51 pm
Posts: 1564
Location: Sydney, Australia
Cab, your post is a little confusing here. It seems that your first paragraphic doesn't quite marry up. Your stance on the whole my own god thing seems to contradict itself.

However, let me compare it to the Santa Clause. As a father, I obviously don't believe in Santa. However, I do accept the fact that my children do and I even help to keep their belief alive because they are only children and it's nice to see them happy. At the end of the day I have the power to increase my own happiness but seeing theirs. And in doing that, I become Santa.

_________________
Determination. Perseverance. Resolution.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ricky Gervais ~ Why I don't believe in god
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:23 pm
Posts: 4
Hmm, you right it does go back and forth a bit to much. My concept is that I of what Anton wrote in TSB. God (is either titled as such, or something different, or is not called that at all) but it is the balancing force in the Universe. Not, and I repeat, not an anthropomorphic jewish zombie that is his own dad. Satan, is of course the dark force, spiritual, or not, that makes the Satanist independent of the people who believe in cosmic boogeymen.

My point is that if someone believes in God, like Jesus or Krishna. Unless, they are forcing it upon me and going to the heights of annoyance to prove to me that they are real, I really don't care what they believe. This selective apathetic attitude is also presented to atheists (people different from Satanists) more like anti-theists that seek out the religious and deface their beliefs.

Now, I have had many discussions with "atheists". Many of them are confused by Satanism. Claiming it's arguments to go back and forth and are confusing and pointless for a bunch of people who don't have a belief in spirituality or any sense of theism.

"If you don't believe in a god, or spiritual aspect, why have a religion, why have ritual? Why even consider yourself a religion"? A friend of mine critiquing Satanism.

Others have spared no expense at claiming that Theism is still theism believing yourself to be a god, is still wasting your time believing in the concept of god. Auto-theism is the Satanists way of twisting around the faith based concepts of god based religions and putting it on themselves in stead of putting out into the Universe, and making up a Cosmic Big Guy.

Religion is Religion, some atheists are nauseated by that word. I have had so many atheists kinda give me the whole: "What makes you think your so different from other religions? Just because you disbelieve everyone else's gods and form your own? Every religion does that, so your not as different from every religion. Some of these more popular atheists, Bill Mahar for instance believes that religions, like ours, can be enablers to other religions. We may be atheists in the sense that we don't believe in personal deities, but we are a religion and thus we would rely more on that than society and science.

Thus, I am selectively apathetic to what other people say. I feel that my power, as my own god, is to decide for myself what "truths" I will accept as reliable for my own self. Did not the Satanic Bible say that I question and interrogate the Law of God and Man. That I am doubtful of "Well accepted Truths." I, as Satan, represent opposition and adversarial difference to well held truths. I don't worry myself about Science disproving God.

I don't believe in a personal deity, and that's as far atheistic as I get. I don't get into all the philosophical and scientific depths of it, because as a Satanists I am here today, and possibly gone tomorrow (This is quite true as a Firefighter) so I am not up for a bunch of philosophical debate about a god, because I don't care.

Let the atheist and the christian lock horns for the next several centuries over "truth". I am enjoying my life and my concept of Satan, because I am Satanist. I decided what my own Truth is, and I don't let Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, or "Atheists" tell me what it is.

Hope this may clear it up a bit. Maybe I should have worked that previous post out for the better.

-cab

_________________
There is something ticklish in "the truth" and in the search for the truth; and if a man goes about it too humanely, I wager he find nothing!
Nietzsche, from Beyond Good and Evil


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: !
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:41 am 
Offline
Exemplar
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:30 am
Posts: 1951
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Grym - right on, you can be the de-Christianized saint who takes on the fun, parental aspects of Father Christmas/Pere Noel/juolopukki, and still be, from our[i][i]perspective a god, and certainly the master of the machinery behind a child's god. Hell, that's how so many relationships of sorts are kept together.

And, rainbow4ever, indeed - you give me yet again cause to take recourse to Lou Rawls!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvoRDZsD078

This is not mere horsing around.

_________________
Ebet labour ne zizoner un den.

For once we were gods, so shall we be again!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ricky Gervais ~ Why I don't believe in god
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:58 am 
Offline
Libertine III
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:58 am
Posts: 471
Location: GR , MI
I have given up on the idea of auto-theism. It seems as logical to me as any other type of theism. Theism itself wreaks of some sense of divinity.
"I am a god" -this bullet says otherwise-
I recognize, though, when people take control and responsibility for themselves.

Divinity is for those who can't accept humanity.

_________________
Ich bin Gott(los)
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ricky Gervais ~ Why I don't believe in god
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:23 pm
Posts: 4
I don't reject auto-theism, that is the life-blood of occultism and Satanism. That is why for years theses religious and spiritual practices have been accused of every major crime on the face of the planet. Communism, Murder, Molestation the list goes on. When the people shift their plane of understanding-that no god exists-without, only within, he/she becomes quite powerful. Thus, if we demonize (pun intended) these men and women and accuse them of horrid crimes people will never see these religious/spiritual tenets as reliable methods to arrive at self-power and self-truth. Case in point:

Image

This picture, that was used to educate young men and women in India of the mass rise of underground "Satanic Worship." I like the art style and image of Baphomet, really cool. The bad part is that it plays on unreliable historic myths and unrelated events. Like the swastika in the upper right, This asserts that Satanist, all of them, are Neo-nazi's. :lol:


While I am mildly spiritual in my ritual magic, which is to master my will, I do not connect self-godhood to any source of Divinity. Satan, The Adversary, has never been attributed any sense of Divinity, even by people I know to be Theistic Satanists. White Light Religionists seem to love that word, I hate it. It screams I am so much more holy and righteous than the rest of you.

Satan is the opposer and accuser in the Jewish and Christian scriptures of a Divine Tyrant. To ascribe Divinity to the opposer of The Divine would be contradictory and not Satanic.

I have better reasons for, in certain circumstances, not accepting Humanity, like herd conformity and mass ignorance. I don't need divinity to do that. :mrgreen:

_________________
There is something ticklish in "the truth" and in the search for the truth; and if a man goes about it too humanely, I wager he find nothing!
Nietzsche, from Beyond Good and Evil


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ricky Gervais ~ Why I don't believe in god
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:50 pm 
Offline
Exemplar
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:51 pm
Posts: 1564
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hmmm... What does a god do?

For my part I believe that I am my own god because I create my own destiny and there is no higher power than myself. I am ultimately responsible for my own actions and it is I that creates the workd around me by the way I interract with it.

Do I claim to be omniscient? Do I claim to be omnipotent? No, nor do I claim that I made the world in seven days, or hang out on a mountain being fed grapes, or recline in meditation in the clouds.

In a lot of ways, "god" really isn't the right word and the xians have given it a bad name anyway.

I think the key is the definition. I say I am my own god because I am in control of my life and you say "well, if you are your own god, turn water to wine." Different definitions.

_________________
Determination. Perseverance. Resolution.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ricky Gervais ~ Why I don't believe in god
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:32 am
Posts: 91
Location: NYC
Wicked Puppy wrote:
I have given up on the idea of auto-theism. It seems as logical to me as any other type of theism. Theism itself wreaks of some sense of divinity.


I've always thought of the term 'auto-theism' as a figure of speech. I consider myself an auto-theist in the sense of being in control of my destiny (as Grymlord posted). Not in the belief that I think of myself as a divine being.

...although I am quite fabulous, if I do say so myself :lol:

_________________
"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

Board index » Education and Development » Philosophy


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: