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 Post subject: Re:
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:38 am 
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Libertine III

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:39 am
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Location: Dundee, Scotland
Goddess of Lust wrote:
I would like to ask a question and get everyone's view on this:

How is it that men are applauded and encouraged to "Sow their wild oats", and yet if a woman does.....she is considered a slut and frowned upon????


It's a combination of biology and culture. Males are designed to impregnate many females in a short amount of time. Females aren't. Fathers can be long gone by the time a baby's born. Mothers can't. Men get the largest number of grandchildren by being promiscuous, and women don't. Instincts tend to follow optimum reproductive success. At first, culture followed the biology, later they reinforced each other in a springy, upwards spiral. At least that's what men in my culture told me. They might have been justifying to themselves, their use of prostitutes behind their wives' backs. Obviously there'll be exceptions to these generalizations in individual people, and they'll be thought of as degenerate. It's a cultural sin for a woman to act like a man and be promiscuous. And a man has to ogle and talk about T&A in front of his friends for fear of being called "fag".

But if any of that biology bullshit's true, it means society has adopted the female model of reproduction: monogamy, families, very heavy investment in a small number of children. It makes me wonder if it really is a male dominated society. It seems to me the women have won the war. Men having better jobs with higher pay could just be the spite of a sore loser. Sometimes I wonder what society would look like if it stuck with the male model of reproduction. I get images of everything from cavemen, to Waterworld and Mad Max, to prides of lions, to ant farms. Then I think about what it would be like to have my own harem, and get all giggly.


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 Post subject: Re: Orgies with like-minded Satanists
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:24 am 
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Exemplar
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Coelenrate: what of professional athletes, "serial monogamy", and Mormon "stellar marriage"?

I suspect that the monogamous norm reflects a comparatively recent development, not entirely without benefits to the males who seek social power/authority to use in controlling their women-folk while potentially sneaking extras on the side or trading-up to newer models over time. It would be largely a matter of property and ownership, which is not to say that authentic emotional affinity and affection don't factor in - I am just boiling things down through one set of filters, and genuine compatibility and partnership do seem to play well in essentially monogamous relationships. Consider how many "open relationships" founder due to the threats posed to the putative primary relationship.

Let us also ponder the introduction of "Ax" deodorant as an act of chemical warfare. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:57 pm 
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Libertine VI
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Coelenrate wrote:
.... Then I think about what it would be like to have my own harem, and get all giggly.


I agree that there is a double standard there. I don't see it changing quickly, but progress has been made. Of course in our Satanic community there is equality in our pursuit of sexual freedom and happiness, but society in general has some catching up to do.

In traditional couplings, the man might think it a nice idea to have his own harem, (simply thinking of his needs as he would be hard pressed to please all of those women) but then when his partner toys with the idea of having her own Male Harem, jealousy inevitably ensues (which comes back to ownership).

While I agree with you about the difference when it comes to producing offspring, that is not the only reason for sexual contact.
On the base level, sex feels good for both men and women, its a good stress reliever and in a strange way it has become the adult medium for making connections and networking. As it is enjoyable to be made to feel good by another person, it can be equally fulfilling to know that you are making someone else feel good. When someone does something nice for you, often you feel a wish to reciprocate in some way.... Some people see this as their gift to offer and use it to get what they want.

This brings me to a slight difference for women in the promiscuity department. Many women are perfectly aware of their powers over men when it comes to sex, and use their devious seductive abilities to manipulate people and situations for their benefit. In the past, becoming pregnant would tie a man to her and force that continued connection, but now the woman may have her sights on a corporate position, a fancy new car or someone to fix things around her house free of charge. Its all part of the game, and it seems many men (while blindly following their penis) overlook the scheming abilities of these women and so you are right in another sense. Women have been able to get what they want from men by indirect means for a very long time, and many are not happy about this, so they paint these "sexually assertive" women as worthless whores in the eyes of society.

Of course not all women are like this, there are certainly a fair few who just enjoy sex and give it away freely to whomever is in closest proximity when the mood strikes. And there are others with compulsions who are trying to sort out "Daddy issues" by looking for love in all the wrong places...


But to answer Goddess of Lust's original question, and it pains me to say this because I am not a feminist....
Men have historically placed themselves on a higher rung than women, seeing themselves as superior and presenting an attitude of ownership over women. Women were not allowed to be literate, pursue careers, vote, own property etc, etc probably because men realized that women were not as dim witted as they were told they were. Perhaps they were afraid that if women had the same freedoms they did, they would dominate the men or have little use for them. It could be an attempt to protect fragile egos (as so many things are) and as a means of punishment for rising up to equality, the men attempt to take away a woman's virtue and make her feel guilty for pursuing her own gratification (mentally, spiritually, physically, financially, emotionally etc).

But on the list of pro's and con's, having the freedom with a side of guilt is much better than not having the freedom, so the women's liberation movement began and has brought the world to where it is today. Satanism has taken the next step forward in acknowledging our humanity, and hopefully in a few decades we will no longer have guilt imposed on us by "morally superior" people with fragile egos who make it a habit of denying their own nature in an attempt to be worthy of God's missionary love in the afterlife. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Orgies with like-minded Satanists
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:23 am 
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Very nice, Lyria. I normally don't read a post that long; I usually find that my attention wavers.

I just finished a Psychology course and we discussed human sexuality in the final week. It is amazing how much society has destroyed the sexuality of women just for religious and dominance. The first laws against rape were created because raping a woman was damaging another man's property.

There really are a lot of double standards regarding male and female sexuality. They are very hard to let go of, too. They are so ingrained that it almost feels like they're part of our nature rather than society.

Female sexuality is beautiful. Anyone who has ever really watched a woman during sex or during masturbation would be hard-pressed to find anything else on the planet that was as simultaneously beautiful and exciting.

Humans are one of the only predatory species wherein the male is not more decorated than the female. Male lions have manes, male birds have pretty feathers and, well, the peacock really defines the matter. Why is this? Why is the dominant side the ugly side in the human species? This has always baffled me. Women certainly need no help in attracting mates. Why, then, are we, as males, viewed as the dominant character? Just because we have more strength? The female lion is the hunter, yet she is dominated by the male. We are completely backwards. If you think about it, women should be the dominant half. They are better-looking, they traditionally stay home while the husband "hunts" and they are the ones that are searched after in our society.

Pretty shitty hand to be dealt if you ask me.


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 Post subject: Re: Orgies with like-minded Satanists
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:13 pm 
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Libertine VI
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barrytheblade wrote:
Very nice, Lyria. I normally don't read a post that long; I usually find that my attention wavers.

........

Female sexuality is beautiful. Anyone who has ever really watched a woman during sex or during masturbation would be hard-pressed to find anything else on the planet that was as simultaneously beautiful and exciting.


Thanks Barry, its so nice to hear points of view such as yours on the subject!

The double standard has been ingrained in us women as well, and its incredibly difficult to break free from those thoughts. In a way, Satanism gave me permission to express myself without inhibitions and guilt and that was such a freeing experience- its hard to describe...
As a student of psychology (and sociology) I'm sure you know that from the time we are born, women are given the impression that their feminine attributes are ugly, they smell bad, don't look at them, don't touch them, its wrong to take pleasure from such things, and don't even use the proper name for them because its vulgar...

Its not surprising really that many women have problems feeling free and comfortable with themselves, let alone with a partner! For women who feel this way its no wonder they run away screaming at the thought of an orgy. If its that difficult to get over your insecurities and be vulnerable with one partner, the idea of exposing yourself to that level of vulnerability with a number of people at once would seem horrific and terrifying! I'm sure that most of you know that women tend to obsess about their perceived flaws, and this kind of activity would put a giant magnifying glass on them, causing thoughts of anxiety rather than pleasure.

Also, sorry about the length, sometimes my fingers get away from me when I'm trying to express my thoughts this way. I hope your attention didn't waver to often. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Orgies with like-minded Satanists
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:23 am 
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Exemplar
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Jacob Bronowski, in "The Ascent of Man", noted the cultural significance of sex, particularly of the monogamous sort, in that a partnership inspired by pleasure can accomplish things, hinting that the verbal component of foreplay isn't just about physique and sexual prowess, but also the promise of very rewarding pillow-talk. Thus the phenomenon of the hetaira, the courtesan, and the geisha, and not merely to boost male egos, but also to inspire intellect and challenge it. Decent sex and great company ultimately strike most intelligent men as a better combo better than great sex and idiotic company. It even featured as a theme in "Slapshot". This could well be a factor in the fetishization of nurses and mothers-superior... though the outfits don't hurt, neither.

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 Post subject: Re: Orgies with like-minded Satanists
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:15 pm 
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Libertine III

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 340
Location: Dundee, Scotland
AnkouDroug wrote:
Jacob Bronowski, in "The Ascent of Man", noted the cultural significance of sex, particularly of the monogamous sort, in that a partnership inspired by pleasure can accomplish things, hinting that the verbal component of foreplay isn't just about physique and sexual prowess, but also the promise of very rewarding pillow-talk. Thus the phenomenon of the hetaira, the courtesan, and the geisha, and not merely to boost male egos, but also to inspire intellect and challenge it. Decent sex and great company ultimately strike most intelligent men as a better combo better than great sex and idiotic company. It even featured as a theme in "Slapshot". This could well be a factor in the fetishization of nurses and mothers-superior... though the outfits don't hurt, neither.



Hmm. Well, I'll be damned.


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 Post subject: Re: Orgies with like-minded Satanists
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:50 am 
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Libertine II
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hell as long as you arnt hurting anyone far be it from me to judge any behavior. not only do you have the freedom to do this as a satanist but also as an american, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
so in my eyes swing away!

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 Post subject: Re: Orgies with like-minded Satanists
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:07 am 
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I must be honest. The idea of sharing myself with more than my man would drive me (and him) nuts. I have a few friends that are in various open relationships. Some have just the wife being able to sleep with other women. Some have both partners being open. And I don't see a problem if it can work for you. But my jealousy bone is just way to big to pick.

Seriously, once when I was younger, I had a girlfriend at the time. And we would write each other letters (we lived together, mind you) as if we were other people. I was my gf own mistress. And...I got jealous...of me! Of me! So yeah, I can't even pretend to cheat and be someone else. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Orgies with like-minded Satanists
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:51 am 
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Libertine VI
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Noctuary wrote:
... we would write each other letters (we lived together, mind you) as if we were other people. I was my gf own mistress. And...I got jealous...of me! Of me! So yeah, I can't even pretend to cheat and be someone else. :oops:

You were jealous of yourself?.... That is a new one for me!

And I agree, open relationships are definitely not your thing. But they are not for most people.

I think that because Satanism is not for most people, you may find a slightly higher percentage of Satanists who have open relationships than the general population, but as I've discussed at length elsewhere, being sexually uninhibited does not mean that you have to have multiple partners. It just means that you should feel free to express your sexuality in the way that best suits you.

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 Post subject: Re: Orgies with like-minded Satanists
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:56 am 
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I have a few pagan friends who have open relationships. And for the most part they seem to have the same issues monogamous couples have. I just have this hot latina jealousy thing going on. I would be one of those women who would indeed stab someone in the face if they cheated on me. Guess it's glad I have a very loyal boyfriend who believes the same way I do..well he might stone me... just kidding! :lol:

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