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 Post subject: Understanding the powers of the mind
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:24 pm 
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Libertine VI
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6nhUQKK ... r_embedded

This idea goes along with the concept of magic and persuasion, but is slightly different.
I look forward to any comments or ideas that may come from watching this video, as well as success stories if anyone does this.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding the powers of the mind
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:45 pm 
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Colonel Sanders of Kentucky Friend chicken fame, didn’t become succesful from “positive thinking,” and training his mind.

He became successful because of hard work and fortitude.

He had at least a dozen businesses that failed.

Did he start buying “how to think” programs? No. He just didn’t give up and continued to WORK and TRY new things until he finally succeeded around the age of 60.



Complete and utter nonsensical bullshit aimed at the losers of society who are too weak to put forth any preparation, education, and hard work in attaining their goals.

This looks like a cheap rip off of the Anthony Robbins ideas. Even he got most of his ideas from Neuro Linguistic Programing or NLP. Which is also bullshit if one doesn’t have motivation to work hard at achieving their goals.

This guy indirectly states several times that the mind is a separate entity from the individual. As if it is some kind of outside agent that can either work with us or against us.

I almost threw up in my mouth when he stated, “The mind doesn’t pick up three words, Don’t, not, no.”
I say, prove it. At least show me some solid scientific research done by REAL scientists in a controlled environment.

He goes on further to state that therefore if an overweight person says that “I don’t want to be overweight, the mind only hears I want to be overweight.”

WHAT??

Maybe his mind doesn’t pick those words up, but mine does, because MY “mind” exists within my brain. My mind IS my brain, and it is an awesome thing which can comprehend highly complex things, such as bullshit from a mile away.

I will go so far as to say, that other “minds” will pick up MY mind’s requests and demands as well.
If my mother goes to give me an extra piece of chicken, and I say, “I DON’T want it, then guess what? She doesn’t give me another piece, because her mind DID pick up the “Don’t” request from my mind.

He says that you can ask any rich person about how they became rich, blah blah blah.

If we asked one of the richest men in the world, Bill Gates, do you think that he would say, “Yeah, I used to be a complete loser until I learned how to focus my mind. I used to sit home and think, I want to be rich, and one day I found 50 Billion dollars in my bank account.

Or would he say that “Well, I went to school, and while I was there I played around with computers and programing, and using my learned knowledge and the ideas of others I came up with some good ideas, and then I got OFF of my ass and implemented those ideas through hard WORK, cunning and fortitude.”

Colonel Sanders of Kentucky Friend chicken fame, didn’t become succesful from “positive thinking,” and training his mind.

He became successful because of hard work and fortitude.

He had at least a dozen businesses that failed.

Did he start buying “how to think” programs? No. He just didn’t give up and continued to WORK and TRY new things until he finally succeeded around the age of 60.

These positive thinking gurus got rich because of gullible lazy people.
Anthony Robbins likes to tell the story that he used to be so poor that he lived in a studio apartment and used to do his dishes in the bathtub, until he learned positive thinking.
What he leaves out, is that positive thinking and visualization didn’t do a damn tangible thing for him. It was his ACTIONS that did, when he got off his ass and stopped thinking merely just thinking, and started to SELL an IDEA.
He did at least come up with ways to program the brain of individuals to better achieve certain tasks through visualization. But visualization without action is NOTHING.

Sure these people can give you examples of people who used their methods and got some positive results, but I would like to know how many of those people would have eventually figured out what ACTIONS to take on their own and would have gotten the same results.
Better yet, I would like to know how many fat people bought the program this guy is selling and are still sitting at home in a comfortable chair eating chicken wings and pizza, as they train their minds to think skinny.

Out of curiosity I went to the link on the Youtube page to this guys website, and guess what? Yes, he has dozens of programs for SALE.

So he isn’t successful because of some great original idea, but instead he is successful because he put his ideas into ACTION and marketed some bullshit in new packaging, which has been bought by gullible people for at least 100 years. Or at least since Earl Nightingale started selling the same “ideas” around the 1940's.

So if you want to be skinny, and don’t know how to be so, do some research into nutrition and exercise, and once you have the knowledge, put that knowledge into action and WORK off more fat then you take in. I guarantee that you will lose weight faster then anyone who buys any go lucky, fart rainbows out of your ass programing; and it wont matter what your mind is thinking because your body will DO THE WORK, to get you real results.

One last thing. Those who would argue that one has to be put into a positive frame of mind to achieve certain goals, and these types of programing can put people in such a mind state, I will argue that in an overwhelming number of instances these programs will only achieve to put the mind in a happy and positive thinking state, but will not get the body into motion to achieve tangible positive changes.
Even when it does put the body into motion, the will for positive change is very short lived.
One can see such examples by observing all of the new people who join health clubs on January 1st, making these places stuffed with meat and sweat, but by the following month, the places are back to normal capacity, with maybe on or two of the January sign ups still pumping the Stair Master.

If anyone does have any positive LONG lasting and tangible benefits from such programs, I would be interested in hearing about them.


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding the powers of the mind
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:17 am 
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Libertine VI
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:D Thanks for your opinion.

The red was a little difficult to read, but does your colour choice go along with the mood/tone of your response?

I did not want to sway responses to this by giving my opinion. I just wanted to put it out there, and I see it has sparked a reaction from you. Thanks again.

Does anyone else have a reaction to this video?

Perhaps Ceytin would like to add an opinion... I know he is a fan of the Tulpa argument. Hopefully we can hear from someone on both sides of this "mind power" business?

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding the powers of the mind
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:05 am 
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I don't know what tulpas have to do with this but since you asked for my opinion:

firstly - when he says the brain doesn't process the word no or don't, what he means is that the subconscious has problems processing statements like that. instead of saying something negative say something positive.
If you say: i don't want to be fat. what does that mean to your subconscious? what do you want to be? A polar bear?
It would be better to state your objective: I want to be lean.
But, instead of stating a "want" which is like a wish - state it as a process: I am becoming lean. If you state: I am lean - your subconscious rejects it as a lie. Yet when you state the process your subconscious will accept it.
These concepts are not new and have been around for sometime. The book The Power of your Subconscious explores all of this.

If you keep thinking "i don't want to fail" - what are you focusing on?
Failure of course. Even though you want to avoid it your are still focusing on it.
Instead it would be better to focus on results with a thought like: I am succeeding.

The problem some people face is that they watch this video and then think that if they just change their attitude everything else will follow. Not always the case . If it was that easy everyone would do it.
But changing your attitude is the first step. You will never be successful if you don't first believe you can be successful. Everything you achieve in life first begins as a thought. The more you dwell on that thought the more your subconscious steers you into making it a reality. It still requires hard work. Success will not fall from the sky into your lap. But changing your attitude may open you eyes to opportunities that you would have previously missed. It still requires you to seize those opportunities in order to attain your goals.

You cannot be more than what you believe you are.

I've applied similar principals to ones in this video to my life and they work. I've seen others do the same. I have no desire to convince anyone that they work or argue about it - i know they work for me. If someone is unable to apply them to their life then either they are not doing it correctly or they harbor doubt that it will work. Their loss.

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"Learn to accept, even welcome pain - for if you do not fear pain... if the thought of physical, emotional or spiritual anguish cannot dissuade you from the true path - then no enemy, however strong, can defeat you...no struggle, however long, can deter you...nor circumstance, however wrong, can keep you from your destiny."


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding the powers of the mind
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:20 am 
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Also: these same principals apply to ritual.
ritual is all about focusing your will to bring about changes in your reality.
This is the exact same thing, just without the actual ritual. Some people require rituals in order for the minds to get behind the ideas they want to make realities, but you can achieve the same results without them if you apply these principals.
You cannot reject these ideas and then still expect rituals to work for you - they are the same thing.

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"Learn to accept, even welcome pain - for if you do not fear pain... if the thought of physical, emotional or spiritual anguish cannot dissuade you from the true path - then no enemy, however strong, can defeat you...no struggle, however long, can deter you...nor circumstance, however wrong, can keep you from your destiny."


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding the powers of the mind
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Libertine VI
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ceytin wrote:
I don't know what tulpas have to do with this but since you asked for my opinion:

Tulpas have nothing to do with this exactly, but we are essentially talking about the power of the mind in creating our reality, or the reality that we strive for.

Ceytin, I think after reading your post on the subject, that YOU should have made the video. Your explanation was far more believable because it explained the process in a matter of fact way. The guy on the video to me seemed like a lisping televangelist preacher. He could have told me that bananas were yellow and the sky was blue and I think I would have doubted him. The type of personality that seems to draw most people in always seems to make me more suspicious (a good quality for a Satanist I suppose).

I will give this a try and change my way of thinking in regards to a few of my goals and see if it will help me to attain them easier, faster or differently.

I will come back to this thread and post any results in... lets say a month or so- that should give me sufficient time to change my perspective and see if anything in my life changes along with it.

Would you care to share a related experience that had obvious results in order to better illustrate the expected outcomes of this type of thinking?

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding the powers of the mind
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:51 pm 
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Quote:
The red was a little difficult to read, but does your colour choice go along with the mood/tone of your response?


I the red color had the opposite affect from my purpose of using it. I’m a night owl, and often go online after work, which is usually after one in the morning. I find that reading bright fonts against dark backgrounds for too long tends to strain my eyes. Therefore I attempted to create a more soothing combination of colors when I posted. Not to mention I thought it looked cool ;)

Anyway back to the subject at hand.

I wouldn’t say that the topic made me angry, because I don’t have an investment in it. However, I do get frustrated somewhat when I see people who are either trying to sell something as a “quick fix,” or an easy way to attain something. I see it almost every day in programs that relate to such things as weight loss, getting out of debt, making money, or becoming someone like the type of person one wishes to be, all without putting in real effort and commitment. They are sheepishly led to believe that it can all be purchased on video, audio, or a pill.

What leaves a bad taste in my mouth about it is that people who believe that such things are easily attainable by a quick fix also attribute the success of those individuals who have worked hard to attain their goals, to luck, and their own failures to “bad luck,” and other “unfortunate circumstances of life.”

An interesting side note is that my favorite quote regarding “luck” comes from one of these “self help gurus,” whom I’ve mentioned earlier. Earl Nightingale.
His definition of “luck,” is “Preparedness meeting opportunity.”

I am not saying that a person’s thought process and general outlook doesn’t have anything to do with their success.

In order for a person to achieve positive outcomes, they do have to believe that their actions will possibly yield success. Too often however, I see the key ingredient of “action,” and hard work only given a brief light in the subject matter of the “How to train your mind,” crowd.

The way that I see it, is that “positive thinking,” and ones general mind set can be compared to how vitamins work.

There are those “snake oil” type sales people who will attempt to convince the gullible that certain vitamins are a cure all for just about any ailment, from depression to physical disease.

When in fact vitamins are a catalysts for other factors in ones already existing physiology to which the main contributing factors are nutrition, life style and genetics. They are like small pieces of wood that when added to a fire can increase the intensity and the size of the flame, but without a fire that is already lit, they are useless.

Just as vitamins alone without proper nutrition, exercise, and a general healthy life style will not help someone become healthy, positive thinking alone will not do anything to achieve success either.

People who sell vitamin supplements and mind training programs tend to have several things in common. They both put their product in a light that will very strongly suggest that the product by itself can cause fast and significant changes in a person, while down playing those things that truly matter as a side note. Also there is ALWAYS more things to buy.
“Free” seminars are aimed at people to put them into a frenzied positive state of mind, at which point the sales pitch for the actual programs follows.

There are no miracles cures for the body or the mind. No quick fixes for diseases of the body, spirit or finances. If there were, then we wouldn’t need board certified doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists.
Millions of people could then simply buy a few books or pop a few pills, and by that alone could live a happy, healthy and productive life. It just doesn’t work that way.

Healthy people are healthy because of a COMBINATION of good genes, a healthy life style which may include some vitamin supplements and a healthy mind.

Successful people are Successful because they worked hard for their achievements through education (either through study in a class room, or the school of hard knocks), training themselves to see opportunist that the average person would miss, taking action when those opportunities surface, AND having a positive (but realistic) mind set.


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding the powers of the mind
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Libertine VI
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Pickled Duck Lips wrote:
Successful people are Successful because they worked hard for their achievements through education (either through study in a class room, or the school of hard knocks), training themselves to see opportunist that the average person would miss, taking action when those opportunities surface, AND having a positive (but realistic) mind set.

As Satanists who already set and work toward goals regularly, I was wondering if the phrasing of our "self-talk" would make an impact on our goal attainment. We are already doing the work, but would thinking the "wrong" way make things progress more slowly?
Would thinking in a more positive way make things progress more quickly or easily?

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding the powers of the mind
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:45 pm 
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That is a bit of an oxymoron I think.

I would argue that If a person is already actively working towards their goals then they have already had the positive “self-talk” with themselves and are moving forward.

At that point it’s more about the ability to access ones results objectively and making adjustments in ones actions to enhance the possibility of a positive outcome.

It is the ones who are stagnant in action and motivation that need the positive self talk in order to get them going in the first place.

In other words once a person is already taking physical actions to achieve their goals, then what they need to have is an objective analytical view of their progress or lack there of. At that point the self talk wouldn’t be positive or negative but instead realistic.

Kind of like if a person wants to sail around the world. They might need self talk to motivate themselves to learn how to sail, then to actually get moving and take action and obtain a boat and finally raise their sails and starting their journey.

Once they are on the ocean, sailing ahead, then they are already on their way to achieving their goal and the self motivation talk wouldn’t do much. Thinking positively or negatively would not make the boat go any faster or slower. At this point they can decide by the actual experience itself if it is a journey that they wish to continue on or to abandon it. Their decision either way would be based on tangible experience and knowledge instead of just thinking about the possibility of the success or failure of such a journey.


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