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I believe in magic insofar as it a symbol of my own mental work, but I don't feel a need to do rituals in order to get things done.

Let me offer a piece of advice, if I may...

As a newcomer here, it would not be wise to imply that our members are not Real/True Satanists because we do not feel the same way about Satanism that you do, or You may find yourself with a face full of mustard before long. (inside joke)

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"Adapt and Overcome"

MistressLyria@gmail.com
www.myspace.com/lyriasdungeon

well i don't mean to offend anyone and like i said satanism means different things to different people i believe in magik
but my definition is that the magic happens inside your own mind
you see it is (to me) the satanic lesser magik is common psychology but most people do not know about it which gives us the advantage
greater magik is the complete control of our own emotions it makes the feelings we have practically disappear thus empowering us when we deal with any kind of situations
but everyone has their own definition and that is the best part of satanism the freedom to define things in your own way but surely all satanists must believe in all aspects of satanism even though we may disagree on what it means
by the way what do you mean by a face full of mustard are you planning to give me a hot dog or something? lol

Long story, but basically we were planning a BBQ to roast a fundie one time, and MyndMelder was supposed to bring the mustard.

A few minutes ago on another thread, he mentioned hanging from the rafters in the attic throwing poo, or perhaps mustard.

So I meant that if you were not careful, MM might throw a hand full of mustard your way..... just joking around, get it?

_________________
"Adapt and Overcome"

MistressLyria@gmail.com
www.myspace.com/lyriasdungeon

i see

as someone who is new to satanism but iv still read the satanic bible but still being a fairly nihilistic person i too found it difficult to come to terms with magic. but rather than just denying it i decided to see it as a device for relseasing strong emotions and desires. however i try to stick to the rituals because as the satanic bible says man needs dogma. since magic isnt an intellectual force rather an emotional one the rituals are there to allow you to leave behind all intellectual grumblings to allow the release of all emotions. with the ritual done i think it leaves you with a stronger will and urge for what you want, and should your desire for something be stronger then i think you have more chance of attaining it because you will be more determined to acheive this goal (obviously theres limits to how badly you want something eg wanting a person so badly you end up stalking them). however like i said im new to satanism and i havent done many rituals and i f**ked them up a bit by not having the appropriate equipment and doing things in the wrong order (i was doing it by myself and trying to keep it secret so i have a good reason). im going to try to keep a FAIRLY open mind about magic in terms of its influence on people not taking part in the ritual however being raised by cynical nihilists makes it a little difficult

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I'm on the highway to hell!
The weak will inherit the earth piled on top of their graves.

Uh, you might want to rethink that one.

The Book of Belial is a decent, although very short and shallow, introduction to satanic ritual magic. There are many, many people who have learned magic other ways and who would be much more advanced than someone who had only learned and applied that chapter of TSB.

I'll give a few examples: many salespeople are masters of lesser magic and can manipulate the unwary before they are aware anything is happening, Voudon priests and bokor use a totally different world view but are remarkably effective in what they do, Christian evangelist faith healers have achieved some remarkable results, and of course, many of the most remarkable Western magi in history, e.g. A Crowley or AE Waite, or Dee or Kelly, llived before that book was even written.

TSB is a good book, but it's not the final or only source of left hand path information, or of Satanism.

XPT

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"When someone asks you if you're a god, you say 'YES!'"

I believe in Magic, magick, magik, majik, what the fuck ever.
Run down.
Human bodies are made of mass+ energy
e=mc2
Mass/energy cannot be destroyed, merely turned into one of the other.
Our brains are nothing more than the culmination of both mass and energy.
Physics teaches us that all mass(yes ALL except mass at absolute zero) moves in waves just as energy.
At any given point on this earth we are fluctuating energy and mass through waves from our body to our natural surroundings. This might seem like nonsense but think for a moment, air is nothing more than electrons,protons,neutrons moving at different intervals. Oxygen is mass, nitrogen is mass, everything that makes up what we breathe is mass. Our bodies convert mass into electrical energy to power our cell structures. We are nothing more than mass and energy working as one huge electrical structure. I'm sure we've all seen at one point sparks fly from one object to the next. How is this possible? The mass inbetween acts as a conduit. Same as sound, sight all that stuff. Our senses are nothing more than receptors for the waves that come from massess. Light functions as a wave form bouncing from one object to another. Same as sound, we can hear because sound vibrates the air around us to vibrate our eardrums. Animals(even humans) ear drums are extremely receptive to these vibrations, and our electrical impulses work to translate these vibrations into what we perceive as sound.
All we are is mass+ energy. All that surrounds us is mass + energy.
At what point are we to say it is not possible to do the reverse and transmit the energies into the world around us? Do we not do it on a daily basis with our voices at and movements?

Magic = advanced manipulation of these wavelengths.
At what point do we start manipulating these energies though?
The average human uses what, 10% of his mind willingly? (actually recent studies have shown that the average american only uses 8%)
The rest of our mind is locked, we attempt to unlock it through rituals and self deceipt as well as purposeful practice. How do we subconciously manipulate those around us? They pick up what we intend from these energies we send out because ALL creatures are receptive of them. Why does any ritual work? Same concept, we release our energies into the world around us. Anton seemed to completely understand the physiological aspect of this and wrote explicitly about our adrenal and electrical responses to emotional stimuli.
From experience, even if the ritual fails, or your outcome never sees fruition, the average practitioner still feels relieved after a good ritual. If one doesn't, then it is the ultimate failure in not putting everything you have into it. Things work because the flow of all things is manipulatable. Magic/magick/majik(where did all these fucking terms come from.. and why do people insist on nitpicking which ones fit?) is nothing more than conscious acts of will to affect change in the universe around us. How we do that is through rituals, lesser magic and such as well as seeking change through proactive actions without regards to magic, but, that is regarded as the balancing/nature factor. According to crowley, EVERY ACT OF WILL IS AN ACT OF MAGIC. Including brushing your teeth, as long as you willed it into being and it wasn't just a force of habit.

*edit* I didn't mean this to come out as forceful as it did. I define magic in the same sense that crowley did. It by far seems the most logical and explanative definition out there.

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Ich bin Gott(los)

"If you have employed it" implies that you don't need to.

I would also say that the sin of herd conformity also applies to Satanism which means that you if you believe that ALL Satanists blah blah blah you are guilty of that sin.

However, I also believe that by saying that it also implies that you do not have to follow the sins, statements or literature to the word.

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Determination. Perseverance. Resolution.

LOL. I find this funny because I have always identified myself as an Atheistic Satanist. I do not believe in magic or ghosts or souls or the Devil or "God" (I mean, really? How original was this? I akin it to naming your dog Dog). I never have and I never will.

I believe in the 3 main energies of my life...family, work, and self. I believe that I have to keep an even balance between all of these energies or problems happen. If my family energy becomes too strong, then my work suffers. If my work energy becomes too strong, then I lose my personal time and identity a little...and so on and so forth. The manipulation of these 3 flows of energy in my own life being are what makes me a Satanist. I am in charge of these...this is MY world that I control. I am God and anyone that says different will be destroyed using any means necessary. If you want to call this "magic", then whatever.

I grew tired of the "double-speak" in Satanism a long time ago. "We don't believe in a literal being called Satan", then a Satanist goes off and prays to Lucifer...or Belial...or Leviathan...or Beelzebub...or Baal...or any of the thousands of other names for their arch-nemesis the Xtians have come up with. Xtians see stuff like that and prey on it. Anytime ASL performed a ritual in the red horns, I wanted to punch him in the face. The LAST thing we needed was a clownish element to this belief system. I don't know about any of you, but I struggle on a daily basis to be taken seriously as a Satanist. I always get the "oh, you're still an angry teenager at heart then" attitude (which is funny because when I really WAS an angry teenager, I was a born-again sheep).

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---Rob

"I went to god just to see and I was looking at me. Saw heaven and hell were lies. When I'm god, everyone dies." - MM

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BE AS A LION IN THE PATH
Hate For Hate - And Ruth For Ruth,
Eye For Eye - And Tooth For Tooth.
Scorn For Scorn - And Smile For Smile,
Love For Love - And Guile For Guile.
War For War - And Woe For Woe,
Blood For Blood - And Blow For Blow.

never say never.

To rule out any option is to no longer question your beliefs - and therein lies the path to deception and destruction.
By saying you will never believe in something means there is no difference between the way you hold your beliefs and the way christians hold their beliefs. Christians will never question the existence of their god - they will always believe. You are exactly the same, just opposite.

Don't make the mistake of believing you have arrived in your understanding of the universe and your existence in it. Question everything all the time. The only way you can find out if a god exists is to entertain the idea and explore the possibilities. And just because you believe he doesn't exist today doesn't mean you can stop questioning. If (big IF) you are constantly learning you will need to constantly reassess you views based on the new knowledge you gain.

The left hand path is a journey not a destination.

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ceytin
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"Learn to accept, even welcome pain - for if you do not fear pain... if the thought of physical, emotional or spiritual anguish cannot dissuade you from the true path - then no enemy, however strong, can defeat you...no struggle, however long, can deter you...nor circumstance, however wrong, can keep you from your destiny."

Although I'd love to know just which part you're applauding.

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---Rob

"I went to god just to see and I was looking at me. Saw heaven and hell were lies. When I'm god, everyone dies." - MM

Mostly the last paragraph.

I don't actually call myself atheist, I allow for other possibilities like pantheism, but for all all intensive purposes it amounts to the same thing in relation to my life. As for magic, there is the lesser type magic yes, but there are other frequencies and cues we pick up on which does create a coherent energy between all of us and this universe. It's not all mystical with ghosts and what not, but how the entire system of nature works is still a little beyond human comprehension, and it is my opinion that it is one connected system. As humans we have limited time and senses to be able to see and understand everything, and everything affects everything else in one way or another. That, to me, is one form of 'magic'.

But ya, the plastic devil horns didn't help our being taken seriously much...

There's a quote I like; "Trust those who claim to seek the truth and doubt those who claim to have it."

_________________
BE AS A LION IN THE PATH
Hate For Hate - And Ruth For Ruth,
Eye For Eye - And Tooth For Tooth.
Scorn For Scorn - And Smile For Smile,
Love For Love - And Guile For Guile.
War For War - And Woe For Woe,
Blood For Blood - And Blow For Blow.

I don’t take Satanism or myself too seriously either, but I tend to have fun with most of the things that I do. What I do take seriously, are things that actually matter. For instance if someone’s well being and even possibly their life (work related stuff) depends on my judgement and actions, that I take very seriously; but only until the crisis is over.

My PERSONAL beliefs and personal growth I take seriously, but not the opinions of others regarding those beliefs, unless they have something that I believe to be of value to contribute, either by adding more to my knowledge, by bringing something that I wasn’t aware of to light, or giving constructive criticism.

Some may say that wearing devil horns and such is being a clown and I tend to agree. So what? It’s possible that the person dressed like that is having fun, and is actually clowning around and on the inside is laughing at himself as well as those around him who are foolish enough to believe that he is actually trying to be serious.

I mean if a person wants to be taken seriously so that they can make a difference in their surroundings, then get involved with politics, economics, civil liberties organizations or what ever area that person wants to make a change in. Satanism is never, and yes I am willing to say NEVER, going to make any significant changes in the world because although it may have great internal impact on an individual, it cannot have a major outside impact. It will never build roads, build space ships, cure cancer, forecast the weather, or make a cookie. Hard working people do that stuff, and not their belief systems. Yes, yes I realize that a persons belief system can have an impact on what they DO, but the belief system itself will not actually do it FOR them.

I agree, that is a very good quote. I like it!

_________________
"Adapt and Overcome"

MistressLyria@gmail.com
www.myspace.com/lyriasdungeon